The founder of the Independent Wild Theater, co-host of “Television Toronto” and the “About” show, told journalist Anastasia Bagalika for online.ua about how Ukrainians learned to bypass the system and whether Ukrainian society can maintain integrity.
The medical reform made me feel like a normal person
The scheme with the payment of charitable contributions is not only in medicine; it is in the educational system: kindergartens, schools, universities and so on. Perhaps in the Soviet Union, this system of petty bribery was formed not only because of small salaries, but also because you give a very vulnerable part of your life in the hands of an outsider, and you bring him something as a guarantee that you will not be harmed. Now I am surprised that, for example, a few years ago, when the first stage of the medical reform took place in our country, followed by subsequent stages, many doctors sabotaged it. And I don't understand why this happens.
I don't understand either. On the other hand, if we are talking about medical reform, it could be felt practically immediately. It was visible, right? [There are] Electronic queues.
God, what a blessing it is, [when] the family doctor or doctor you consult is directing you where you need to go. You feel like a normal person.
And there are doctors who say: “I can't take it to myself; It [list of patients - Ed] is full.” That is, they receive the maximum possible payment from the state.
That is, the question is whether you don't want to change to the side where you are doing well, where you don't beg, or you like sweets, candies and so on [She implies the typical form of bribes like giving sweets or expensive alcohol to doctors for their services - Ed.]
Read the first part of the interview with Yaroslava Kravchenko: Some people are only now becoming Ukrainian and beginning to understand what it means - Yaroslava Kravchenko
Ukrainians have learned to bypass the system
Moreover, an innovation was introduced this year, which is that antibiotics could be bought with a prescription. And I observe in my circle of communication, let's say, two types of reactions. The first one is young people who say: “Wow. Awesome! Coo!”.
Finally. There were many complaints, especially after our forcibly displaced persons ended up in Germany and Poland, about the bureaucracy there. God, it's such a long wait! Until one or the other comes.
Of course, we have a lot of things in our country that would improve other countries: “Diia”[an app which allows Ukrainian citizens to use digital documents on their smartphones instead of physical ones for identification and sharing purposes - Ed.], Monobank [Ukrainian online bank without traditional branches, has more over seven million customers - Ed.] and a lot of other things.
On the other hand, Ukrainians have learned so much to bypass the system, and even at the same time, we have excellent assistants - on the one hand, nepotism, many acquaintances whom you can make a call and "solve" it, not standing in line. And on the other hand, it is giving a bribe to someone.
Conditionally. It's not 50 hryvnias for a long time.
Well yeah. This is not 50 hryvnias. But that's why I wanted to conduct such an experiment where these two actions are impossible.
It would be interesting to see how our society would survive in general. We are used to living in a curfew regime; somehow we would be used to living without bribes and nepotism.
Read the second part of the interview with Yaroslava Kravchenko: The war showed some people from such sides that I simply did not expect — Yaroslava Kravchenko
Can Ukrainians adhere to integrity?
Do you think it is possible for our society for most people to adhere to some internal code of integrity?
It's hard for me to talk about society in general. Because you know, you're driving, and someone nearby is listening to [Oleksiy] Arestovych [former adviser of the Office of the President of Ukraine who is known for his controversial statements - Ed.] and says that he's cool and “I'll vote for him.”
Someone is there for Russian liberals. How can I talk about this whole society? I see a way, as with the conversation about antibiotics and use.
That is, for example, on “Television Toronto” we devoted more than one program to this, and doctors were called to explain what antibiotics are.
Then I sat with my mother and explained: “Mom, do you remember we studied biology, and you explained geometry to me?” — “Yes, I remember” — “Let's remember how biology works. Why did you take antibiotics now, mother?” — “Well, that's how I took it last time. It helped me.” — “Did someone assign them to you?” — “No, well, it helped me last time” — “Let's consider in what situation a person can take antibiotics.”
That is, on the one hand, there should be such a massive information campaign, and then there should probably be an exam.
In general, I would conduct an exam for all Ukrainians on the subject of whether they are worthy Ukrainians. There would be not only a question about language.
You may also be interested in: Yaroslav Kravchenko on integrity. When you have an elementary spiritual code, and you follow it.
